Another old mand finds his way.

[Syrtaras]

Wow it's funny how far down the tube everything really has gone around here. Military ediqute and Profesionalism has gone out the door. I guess during my absence it was decided to be lax on how everyhitng works.

I would be delighted to know what level of "professionalism" you expect from an online community that shares an interest in Star Wars gaming with some added (and rather limited) role-playing on the imperial side of things. Because that's all the GE is, after all. No more, no less.

If, by professionalism, you happen to mean "not pissing off long-standing forum members by picking stupid fights that lead nowhere and even going as far as threatening to call for legal action and all this in your first posts in years", then you might want to reconsider your own level of professionalism.

As far as the legal maters is concerned. you better get your head on straight Event hough I am RES I am still a member of the military and can request legal action,

Funnily enough, no one has said otherwise. Longstreet said that he's not sure and not only did I say "Yes, you can.", I also outlined the procedure to follow, namely tell your superior or a division commander. To clarify further: It is the imperial counsel (a division commander acting in the capacity of the ISB General) who convenes a court martial when reports of violations are brought before him. You can not simply drag someone else in front of the court to sue him - that would be Civil Law, which simply doesn't exist in the GE.

furthermore any member of the military that presents a false claim against another is making a false aquisation.

Actually, it would be my job to determine if that is the case should the issue end up in front of the Emperor's Court. But thank you very much for your interpretation of imperial law - I always appreciate "professional" input.

If there was nothing to stop flase aquisations from being said about others, what would stop people saying that Vortagh is gay and tryed to over throw the Empire when he was the Captian of the Chimera.

Yes, stop the witch hunt! Senator McVorty, let go of the accusations! Stop seeing communists everywhere! :P

I probably know more about the military law, and structering than anyone else.

Without trying to sound all-consumingly arrogant, how about structuring your thoughts first before you post something? And back to the topic of professionalism: it looks ridiculously unprofessional when the spelling in your posts is that of a 7 year old. This forum has a built-in spell checker. Use it.

[COL Longstreet]

Mylord, the "behave" was meant in the eye-rolling as well as in the simple reallity-reminding way; as well as just beeing an imperial officer who wants a bit of professionalism. I´m sorry if my comment seemed disrespectful to you; which wasn´t my intention, but despite beeing constantly junior in rank to you I think it´s part of my job (as well as any other officer) to advice for a ... healthy surrounding to work in and with. Honor is not important to most people in this world anymore. Well, for me it is, and so I regard it as my duty, Mylord, even if you or other HC-members are involved.

No words against communism from me, but there are so many reasons not to be with the rebels, but here; were I spent a third of my life and hopefully the whole rest of it.

I advice for good manners, no more. I can´t give orders to you two, and wouldn´t like to I have to admit. However as nearly always it´s better to go on with such conversation on a more private channel. We are the Empire. We are even from the same imperial faction. We should demonstrate, and have to give, the galaxy strenght and unity. Interior quarrels are no sign of unity.

Kreed/Ravin, as the Lord can be a very stubborn man I ask specifficlly you to go into a private channel with this, or into legal measures. Hope you see that this is neither helping your possible comeback nor the GE.


Oh, and regarding my ID-quote: Goddamn, you´re right! Years ago when I started to use it as my quote I translated it myself, and never got a feeling of an error there. My thanks for noting it.

[Xayun Erinos]

No words against communism from me

You're one of them, aren't you?

[COL Longstreet]

In some way I am. Most forms of government and general society are excellent, the problem is the people who reign the most within them often don´t follow it themselfes and make a false thing out of it, sadly one that is the best known on the world. Dictatorship is a great thing, one of the greatest at all, but many of the dictators are just such idiots going into wrong directions. Fact is that democracy is the form that is to be corrupted and disturbed so easily.

[Syrtaras]

Longstreet: It's okay. I understand fully well what you're trying to do and I respect your stance on things like this. However, in my experience, an open discussion, yes, even an open fight is far better than a deceiving atmosphere with public nodding, smiling, saluting, saying "Yes, sir" and "Of course, sir" on the one hand and a lot of hidden backstabbing and entrenchment accusation warfare between various groups in the background (yes, in case it wasn't clear - my notion that the Empire is based on that was purely satirical).

So, to summarize, if I have to choose between someone who breaks a less important rule like "No swear words in the GE IRC channel", but is otherwise an honest, reliable and respectable person (does his job, helps others do theirs, speaks his mind without fear), and someone who follows rules to the letter, but is, frankly, a lying, backstabbing and most of all BORING bastard, I'll always go for the former.

And to prevent further misunderstandings: no, I haven't yet placed any participant of this discussion into the latter category.

As for my stubbornness: 1) Yes, I do stand by my statements, actions and opinions and I will always defend them if questioned. This is mostly seen as a positive character trait, but it's only natural to be called "stubborn" by those who have a different opinion and fail to convince me of it.
2) As unbelievable as it may sound, I have been known to change my opinion on a number of occasions. But that is something that can be achieved solely by valid facts and valid points in a thorough (and, if necessary, public discussion).

[Vortagh]

Kreed, as I have already pointed out in my last post, the matter I talked about has already been known to the HC for several years. As a matter of fact, I also described en detail to you what I am talking about.

[Vortagh]

Well, anyways. You wanted it, so here it is.
To introduce things to those who do know what this is about:
On the last incarnation of the IS.net boards, there was a thread - don't even remember what it was about, but now-Commodore (!) Mar and now-RES Washington were having harmless fun (on the off-topic-board), when Kreed came back from RES and started big-mouthing about how "the GE career of anyone like this, would be ended quickly". He'd gurantee that personally. BlaBla. I deleted that comment and told him to shut up. This is the IM reply:

Vort I do not appreciate you going on the main board and sayign something liek you did. You know as well as I do that the GA does not put up with any of that kind of crap. Will he kick them out of the GE? maybe, maybe not...I will assure you though that their time int he GE will become a living hell.
Please act accordingly and talk with me before you do something like that, and I will do the same. I know I should not have posted that, and I appologize for not conversing with yourself first.
I put a lot of time and effort into the GE and when I see stuff like i saw I will not stand by and let it continue. We are some of the older members of the Ge and we know a lot of what has happened to the GE and how fun it can be. Both f us helped build the Ge up and we need to work with each other rather than against. With every group you got a few weeds that need to be taken care of, so the rest can grow. Lets help kill those weeds and let the rest grow.

Happy now?

[Fel]

Kreed:
First off, your denial of the statements is not very convincing, because I saw them, as Vortagh said, at the time you sent them, and I am certain there is no forgery to them. Your attempt to invoke The Emperor's Court for slander only seems to make you more desperate. In fact, he has just posted some of the material in question, as you insisted.

Nonetheless, if you truly wanted to advance the point that the statements were false, the wrong way of going about it is being actively hostile to Imperial High Command on the message boards.

You don't generate much sympathy for yourself by claiming that the Empire has gone down the tubes. It's also not helpful when you try to tell us that you know better than we do about military law and justice. Your real world military service claims - which I take at face value - may give you more information than the lay person about military justice in your particular armed forces, but the GE is not a component of your armed forces. We have our own system.

Your (presumed) intention - to improve the GE - is good, but the end does not justify the means. The GE is a military organization, but a fictional one. Attempting to carry over real-military ideas works, but only up to a point.

Lord Syrtaras has all the points correct when it comes to Imperial Law and the Emperor's Court, so I advise you very strongly to read his posts. If you still intend to take some sort of legal action, you are advised to read the Articles of War and carefully consider your decision before you decide to report a complaint.

To everyone:
Longstreet is correct: Generally if you have difficulties with someone, you are advised to take it to a private communication channel rather than drag it out on the message boards for all to see. Still, I would expect that mature and professional officers would keep their cool and act in a respectful manner... even when discussing things of a sensitive or inflammatory nature. Almost everyone has done so. Think long and hard before replying.

[Ravin]

Well, anyways. You wanted it, so here it is.
To introduce things to those who do know what this is about:
On the last incarnation of the IS.net boards, there was a thread - don't even remember what it was about, but now-Commodore (!) Mar and now-RES Washington were having harmless fun (on the off-topic-board), when Kreed came back from RES and started big-mouthing about how "the GE career of anyone like this, would be ended quickly". He'd gurantee that personally. BlaBla. I deleted that comment and told him to shut up. This is the IM reply:

Vort I do not appreciate you going on the main board and sayign something liek you did. You know as well as I do that the GA does not put up with any of that kind of crap. Will he kick them out of the GE? maybe, maybe not...I will assure you though that their time int he GE will become a living hell.
Please act accordingly and talk with me before you do something like that, and I will do the same. I know I should not have posted that, and I appologize for not conversing with yourself first.
I put a lot of time and effort into the GE and when I see stuff like i saw I will not stand by and let it continue. We are some of the older members of the Ge and we know a lot of what has happened to the GE and how fun it can be. Both f us helped build the Ge up and we need to work with each other rather than against. With every group you got a few weeds that need to be taken care of, so the rest can grow. Lets help kill those weeds and let the rest grow.

Happy now?

To be honest I don't remember the incident at hand, and after reading it looks like my forum writing. I of course see nothing wrong how that msg is writen other than to clarify my distaste at the time at your actions. Furthermore it looks like I am trying to make it clear I wanted to work with you rather than against. I don't know if you just did not understand the weed metaphore but all I was saying was that we did not need to fight omongst ourselves but rather help take care of those that dissregarded the forum use policy, among other things. That way it would not be so disruptive on the rest.

As far as the post that you deleted, Just reading what I wrote it looks like I went a little overboard on situation,, but apperantly you posted something in it's spot that pissed me off. Is it possible in trying to fix my error, you made one yourself? Non the less that was in the past.

This is what threw me off my rocker here recently that I took personally:

And while we're at it - I'm still here, Kreed. And I remember what you tried to pull, the last time you surfaced.

Instead of saying hey Kreed I'm still here to, good to see how. You make a comment like that.

Of course my response since I have had a lot happen in the past few years and did no recall:

And while we're at it - I'm still here, Kreed. And I remember what you tried to pull, the last time you surfaced.

I'm lost...not a clue what you talking.

(I work Mid-Shift so Yes I do make spelling and wording errors. Never has been my strong suit.)

I don't know why you felt the need to bring anything out as you did, I do know that if this is to continue I prefer we take this outside the GE:ER as it is apperant you took it personally years back, and with the way you belittled me I took it personally.

[Vortagh]

Kreed, your post there is total bull, and you should know that.

Why did I post the exchange? You told me to.
Why did I even mention that something had happened? Because it did and I want you to know that I still remember *exactly* how you behaved back then. As a little "heads up".
Why did I do it in public? Because the entire HC knows about what had happened back then, anyways. So do a few others who were, at one point or another, in HC and aren't anylonger.

Also, I never took this personal, I took this as a direct threat to the GE back then (and now). The entire exchange back then was about WHAT you said you wanted to do. As I mentioned before, you came back from the reserves back then (just like now) and almost immedately started big-mouthing around (just like now), which annoyed quite a few people. At that point I took a rather relaxed stand towards it. However, starting rather normal, you changed into a person who flung threats around in public (and started to conspire against people in secrecy), within no time at all. Gee, just like now.

Now, I could understand that I might have been mistaken, that you really meant something else. You know what's strange, though? The fact that as soon as I sent you my reply back then, you vanished. I know you came back, read it - I checked that - and *poof* you're gone for some three years or so and have no recollection of it whatsoever nowadays.
So wether you remember it or not, while you had a chance to explain what you meant, explain how I was mistaken, or how it was a joke, you decided to vanish. No idea why, but that's what happened. We could have talked about it en detail, but you rather just went away without anything solved.

So, now you come back and you think I will just happily let you back into the GE? Without telling you that I actually do remember things like this?
To make this even worse by adding a pun: No chance in Hell(aeron Vortagh).

Why on earth would I say "Kreed I'm still here to, good to see how", when I remember you as a direct threat that never got solved, is beyond me. Oh and this is not only me, we're talking about. This is, again - as said before - the entire HC. I'm just the voice. They make me do that because I am so eloquent and in your face.


So, take a break, and READ what I wrote in several posts and then try to actually THINK about it. Then you may reply, if you feel so.




P.S.: One of the people you wanted to "weed out" back then, is now head of the Empire's most elite squadron, one of the most active and decorated members and our Tactical Coordinator, who put a lot more work into the GE within one month, than you did in your entire career.

[Ravin]

Wow... I don't even know how to respond to you on this. Maybe it's the Language Barrier but I guess it is apperant you still don't understand anything that was ever said. And to think that I actually tryed working with you is beyond me. It is obviouse and whoever else is behind you are so narrow minded that you do not relize that I am fighting in a real war, I have other responsobilities other than the GE. I say narrow minded becouse did you ever think that my military dutys took me out of contact.

I don't even see how you even could think that I was ever a threat to the GE. I was one of the few who actually helped the GE grow bigger and better. Why would I do all that just to destroy it?

It's also appearent you don't even know why I went onto the RES the first time. I know this becouse only one other person knew why I left. It's kinda ironic how you jump to conclusions, get all up in myface. (What did you expect me to do just stand there and take it?) You don't even know everything that transpired. You have no idea who I am who or who I was 4 years ago.

You said the HC knows all about my past. Are you sure? There is one person who knew everything. That one person is the founder of the GE. there are a lot of things you know nothing about that pertained to the GE as whole, Yourself, and myself.

You have insulted me as an officer of the GE, but most importantly you insult my integerty. I'm sorry to all who have read any of this. I appologize for my reactions , but I will not appologize for calling Vortagh and anyone else that lay quiet behind him, short sighted idiots. For that is who and what they are. Anyone who thinks they have all the facts and attack another without all the facts are ignorant.

[Xayun Erinos]

Maybe it's the Language Barrier but I guess it is apperant you still don't understand anything that was ever said. And to think that I actually tryed working with you is beyond me.

SILLY RACEEST

[LGN_Antillies]

Mr. Kreed, it would appear that the entire Empire is behind Vortagh and those in High Command if your "weeding out" would have included the current Tactical Coordinator.

And if you are so sure they do not "understand" your past or do not "know" who you are, then please elaborate. I am sure we are not below being enlightened.

[Vortagh]

Kreed, I have been part of the Galactic Empire nearly since day 1, even longer than you have been. Believe me when I assure you that I know a shitload about everything that went on here at one point or another.

Wether you are part of the real-life military or not (I was too, btw, so don't get me started), is of absolutely no concern to me.



Even after all this, you still won't calm down and instead of saying something like "Wow, I guess you really misunderstood what I said, I'm really sorry if I sounded wrong", you rave and rant instead, insulting the entire High Command. Finding new ways of showing your apparent complete and utter lack of any etiquette seems to be a hobby of yours.

I don't know about the US military, but let me tell you something about the German one (since you liked to point out how military protocol went down the drain in an earlier post of yours): If my very-superior officer came and accused me of something, jumping in his face and calling him a traitor, then insulting him, after he provided evidence and then prodceeding to verbally beat up the entire General Staff, is NOT what I would call a very successful application of Military Protocol/Professionalism/Etiquette.


Oh, the language barrier has nothin to do with this.

[Ravin]

I said Language barrier for a reason. I said it becouse I know from experiance sometimes people from other countrys don't understand what an American means by certain thing.

The reson I won't back down Vortagh is becouse I feel personally threatened by what you have said. You make it sound like I was personally trying to run the GE, not the case. For your information I am actually really calm, and I call out people who don't have all their facts straight and want to try to publicly slander me.

Overall I called you a short sighted idiot becouse you have not even accepted the fact that you may have misunderstood what was being said, and what I ment. You also said that I came out of the RES guns ablazing last time, and I did the same thing this time. I really don't think I came out guns blazing this time untill you posted and left a comment that you knew more than likely would couse some problems. As for when I first came out of the RES back in the day, Since I am having a hard time remembering to much I do belive that I had the Support of GA Dameon, and I was doing what I felt needed to be done.

The funny thing is all this has sparked over an issue in an off topic forum back in the day between two people, that I felt where not putting forth an image a member of the GE should have, be it playfull or not.

I don't know what else to tell you, other than this would have all been avoided had you not posted and maybe PMed me. You brought up history that I myself did not rember, apperantly I saw it as trivial.