Another old mand finds his way.

[Laithlis]

Kreed, this thread has given you ample opportunities to calm down and talk this incident through like a civilized person, but looks like you're just refusing to do that, but instead you decide to keep up the slander and try to further confuse things by hiding behind every which excuse you can think of, relevant or not.

Language barrier, geez.

I repeat what's been said on this thread before. Calm down and take the time to actually read what's been said on this thread. With thinking involved. Or perhaps the language barrier isn't working the way you suggested?

[Munro Burton]

Language barrier, hah! The only barrier here is your lack of sense, Kreed.

A fat slice of the GE's long-term membership started out speaking a foreign language and then learning English. Only two or three of them haven't mastered the complexities of the English language.

Vortagh and Syrtaras are certainly not among their numbers. Don't reach for straws that aren't even there.

[Ravin]

Language barrier, hah! The only barrier here is your lack of sense, Kreed.

A fat slice of the GE's long-term membership started out speaking a foreign language and then learning English. Only two or three of them haven't mastered the complexities of the English language.

Vortagh and Syrtaras are certainly not among their numbers. Don't reach for straws that aren't even there.

You have no clue what your even talking about. let me explain the "Language Barrier".

Every culter has differant ways of saying something. It does not matter how well you can speak a second language, unless you actually grew up with that language in the orgins culter there are certain things you won't get. For instance a lot of American euphemisms are misunderstood, the american style is not as literal as it is in many other culters.

So before you say someone has a lack of sense you might want to actually rethink that. I have had the opertunity to travel the world and see many differant culters including the german, which is by far the most differant from american. that I have encountered so far.

Here is a good example, I was drinking in germany at a bar called the "The Tree Bar", and I said I was getting 3 sheets to the wind. The germans that where there thought I was going outside and stand outside to get some fresh air. When the actual meaning was that I was acting like 3 sheeets in the wind.

Trust me I don't hid behind responsobility, never have, and never will.

[Vortagh]

Quite frankly, I still don't see what that has to do with anything here at all.
The only thing were it COULD apply in a meaningful way, is the "weed out" comment of yours.

However, unless I am gravely mistaken, the meaning of that one is quite clear.

So, I'm with Burton on this one. You're desperately trying to talk sense into stuff that doesn't make any.

Feel free, however, to write an elaborate, well thought out post that actually has something to do with the problem on hand.

[Ravin]

Vortagh all I am looking for right now is for you to say that you may have overreacted, that it is very possible that you missunderstood everything that happened and that maybe you should have handeled this differantly. That is all I am looking for. It is human nature to be defensive anytime someone attacks you or a group of people attack someone.

I know I darn well I could have handeled this better, I should have not flown off the handel like I did but, I do belive in some small, very small way I was justifyed.

Basicly Vort what gets me the most is you bring something up that is over 3 years old, has no real bearing on who I am, and it looks to me like you fished for the the reaction. I feel like you wanted this to happen. Just out of curiosity's sake do you still have the PM you sent me that I apperantly left after reading?

Overall I understand I have over reacted here to some degree. All I am doing is defnding myself. My basic goal at this point in time is to get to the bottom of this.

[Vortagh]

Kreed, are you arrogant or just plain stupid?

I will NOT say any of that. Especially not after all of this. Why would I?


YOU overreacted 3 or 4 years ago - both on the MBs and in PM. Wether this was a misunderstanding or not, I don't know and right now je ne giveashit pas.
YOU then vanished, without ANY explanation whatsoever and with the HC worrying what you might have tried and wether you were still going to pull anything from the dark.
YOU come back all of a sudden, three, four years later and when I bring it up, you first start flinging insults and then shifting to demanding that WE apologize, for something that not only YOU caused, but that the entire HC is rightly entitled to inquire about.

Wether WE understood you wrong and overreacted, is of NO CONCERN in this debate at this moment. This is ONLY about YOU overreacting. TWICE so far.


I brought this up, true - But AGAIN: I was VERY WELL within acceptable bounds to do so, seeing how much this incident back then was talked about and how this was an unresovled issue of GE security.


DO YOU FINALLY UNDERSTAND THIS? Or do we have to spend another three pages with lengthy posts from me and other HC members till you finally understand what this is all about?

[Fel]

Kreed, having read the comments provided by other people, especially those of Laithlis and Vortagh, it's become VERY obvious to me that you are constantly changing your arguments in order to find some area in which you can get Vortagh to back down - even a centimetre - , so that in the end you can "save face" by saying "See! I was right after all!".

This thread really isn't going anywhere, at least not anywhere good, and I may be forced to just lock it, but I don't like doing that. Maybe this can continue if you will be able to get things under control, but I have the funniest feeling that this won't happen, so my advice is just drop the subject.

That is all.

[Ravin]

I know I darn well I could have handeled this better, I should have not flown off the handel like I did but, I do belive in some small, very small way I was justifyed.

Am I wrong or did I just say I overreacted, and that I could of handeld it better? I'm pretty sure that was there.

What is annoying me the most right now and I keep trying to point out is that everyone here, was not HC back when I left. So it is laid out on the table I moved to Alaska, got engaged, got her pregnant on the engagment night, had to move up wedding plans, had a kid, deployed, just to name a few. I was supposed to be only gone for a few months while I handeled the marriage and the pregnancy, GA Dameon knew about this. As it was a personal reason and I divulged this information to an online friend, as a friend, he must have felt no reason to inform the rest of you. So now that is explained, anything else you want to know. How about my AIDS test, or my bank account information. Right now I am not over reactiing I am severly pissed off that just becouse you all did not know what happened you assume the worse. I'm going to take a minute to calm down so I can finish.

As far the HC right to know... If it was any of the GE's buissness as to why a person leaves then you have a really screwed up view.

How does a Supirior Officer being hard, or disciplining two Junior Officers, be it that the supirior did over react, it is still with his right to do so, and if it was to harsh/or what not then the chain of command was to be used. If the chain of command found that action to be to harsh or out of line then a reprimand on the supirior officer should have accured.

Furthermore what does any of this have to do with GE Security? Being to harsh, or out of line is by no way going to jepordize the security of the GE. I do belive that if I was any kind of risk, or the HC at the time felt I was a security threat then I'm pretty sure I would have been removed from the RES, or at least noted as discharged for whatever reason.

Now tell me why does one event that can clearly be missunderstanding on one side, and over reaction on the other turn into something that must come out on the public forum, could not be said in a PM and resolved in a more peacefull manner.

All I can and will say is yes I have over reacted, who would'nt? If you where attacked out in the open about something you vaguely remember you would not defend yourself? Some do it calmly, some do it like me and attack right back.

Why would you say that you could have missunderstood what happend 4 years ago? I was going to say something about this but have ecided not to.

What do you want from me? I don't know how many times I have to say yes I over reacted today, and more than likely did back then. Since I don't remember what the exact post said or what the whole situation was about I can't say for sure that I did.

Fel I'm really trying to get this under control but I don't understand why Vort won't flat out say "Yes I may have misunderstood you, and yes you over reacted." I'm just trying to figure out why one over reaction 4 years ago is so crucial to the GE that vort has to basicly make it sound like I did something really bad.

You mean you don't remember the time on IS.Net, where you sent me a private message, telling me I should help you "weed out" all those you deemed not "fit for the empire"? I remember my answer very well and how you vanished from the stage after I sent it to you.

If Vort you would be so kind as to point out where in that PM I sent to you that said anything to deal with me being the judge, and jusy in the bolded parts of your quote?

Also in the Italic part, you made it sound as if I was running off becouse of what you PMed me, as stated earlier there where things that you where not privy to.

All that I ask is that this stays calm from now on Vort. I will not insult you, as long as you don't insult me.

[Vortagh]

1.) I never wanted any personal info. Especially not your bank account.

2.) WHY you left was never an issue. The way you left, however, was. Wether you left with a reason or ran away, feeling "caught", was never resolved. That leads to:

3.) Somebody threatening GE officers IS in fact something that ISB or general GE security would take an interest in. And btw, a RES officer is not following any chain of command, when threatening promising and well-liked junior officers on public MBs. Especially not when he just came back from RES and has no idea what's going on.

4.) Obviously you still haven't read my replies. There are several points where I mention that I could have been wrong, however that is not the point here.

Is it clear now? Because from now on, I will let Lord Syrtaras and Admiral Fel do the talking. This was my last post in this thread.

[Jagged Fel]

As the Navy DivComm, Kreed I can assure you that if you decide to return to active duty it will not be to anything higher than Ensign. Your conduct in this thread, past events aside, is unbecoming of a command officer.

Unless your behavior turns around dramatically, there's not much of a future for you under my command.

[Syrtaras]

*sigh*

This is getting repetitive and boring, so I'll try to bring this issue to a close.

Kreed: Your return obviously did not spark the enthusiasm you may have hoped for. The reason for this was originally just that Vortagh, a long standing member of this organization - and rather continuous, at that - remembered an incident in which you played (or may have played) an unfavorable role.

Normally, at least by my standards, this is the moment when the new guy, or rather, the lengthily absent guy in this case, has the opportunity to respond to the well established member by saying something along the lines of: "Hehe, oh yeah - I was a stupid rule Nazi back then, wasn't I? Ah well, I think I'm cool now. :P Oh, btw, reason I vanished? Personal stuff. It just happens... d'oh."

Chance well missed, I'd say.

Instead, you keep ranting on about irrelevant details of your personal life and go about insulting the GE at large by calling its standards lax and generally stating that things have gone down the tube around here. Way to go, man, way to go. This will definitely help shift the focus away from Vortagh's statement regarding your past actions and towards your charming personality nowadays.

Ironically, this kind of public behavior of acting all defensive against, so far, everyone taking part in this discussion including, but not limited to members of High Command, is exactly the kind of conduct unbecoming that you accused people of in that infamous last incident before your departure. So, maybe we should go by your standards and "weed out" GE members who behave like that?

Generally speaking, if we're such an unprofessional organization the standards of which are too lax for you, why bother coming back? Personally, I would suggest that you leave now and do not come back before you fit in better with this club.

That is all.

[Fel]

I stand behind the statements of Syrtaras posted above. This has been going in a tight circle for a while, and the last thing I want to see is more of the same. So let's call it a thread.